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Merucha ([personal profile] merucha) wrote2009-07-28 12:33 pm
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Torchwood Meta: On CoE and Why It's Bad Drama

This is very long. It's my way to express to myself my dissatisfaction with CoE.  Don't read it you don't want to. The next chapter of Andy's story coming up tomorrow!

            One of the reasons I left Star Trek fandom yea many years ago was that I was utterly bored with the arguments about “story” versus “characters.” You know, the people who would say the character has to do that action in order to advance the story versus that action is very out of character for that individual and therefore unbelievable. The two aligned along the “hard’ versus “soft” science-fiction axis, though not totally.

 

            There seems to be a similar division in the reactions to CoE, which would be totally understandable IF THE STORY WERE A GOOD ONE. But it isn’t. Not even by television standards, which is a low bar to set indeed. And the worst part about it is that the wounds are, as they say, self-inflicted.

           First, if you’re a Torchwood fan but not a Doctor Who fan, some of these things might carry less weight, but bear with me. Torchwood belongs, or did, until this series, in the Whoniverse. There are certain conventions about this Universe which are utterly disregarded in CoE. In The Christmas Invasion, the Doctor tells the Sycorax to go home and tell all other alien races to keep their paws off Earth: tell whoever you meet that the Earth is defended. Now, that doesn’t stop the aliens from trying, but… there is always a defense. Until now.  I’d like to see the Doctor’s explanation when Jack calls him on it. Do you think they will make the Doctor into the kind of monster who says it was for the good of mankind? Or sorry Jack, everyone you love is expendable anyway and buck up, there'll be others? Or even worse, have the Doctor indulge in one of his tiresome pity-parties?

 

            Another convention disregarded is the whole idea of UNIT as a warlike group that would shoot at anything that moves. In Journey’s End, Martha is sent by UNIT to use something called the Osterhagen Key, a device that would destroy the Earth by detonating nuclear warheads, rather than let it fall into the hands of the Daleks. I just watched Planet of the Dead. In this particular instance the UNIT people are called to deal with a wormhole. Their commander lines them up in front of it and says, pretty much, whatever comes through, shoot it dead.  So UNIT would accept orders to capitulate without a single shot?

 

            The biggest and best is a little something called the Shadow Proclamation. It’s a large organization which maintains order among races, including employing a set of enforcers called the Judoon. Often the Doctor would quote its treaties and conventions to emphasize that he had the right to act against beings that did not conform to its dictates. In fact in The Stolen Earth the Doctor is asked to lead the forces of the Shadow Proclamation against whoever was stealing planets. What are the odds that Jack, considering where/when he was born, an experienced Time Agent, and a Companion, wouldn’t have known about it? And, with the communications part of his wrist device thingie, call in the Judoon?

 

            But, you say, but that can be explained away one way or the other. All right, I say, then let’s talk character in action:

 

            Martha Jones, the woman who walked the Earth for a year and defeated a mad Time Lord in the process can’t find a way to get back to London

 

            Sarah Jane Smith, a former Companion with a supercomputer and a superintelligent mechanical dog, never even bothers to try to do anything…

 

            Jack Harkness, a man who we are told has spent over one hundred years preparing for the moment where everything changes, doesn’t have a plan. A successful conman and thief, not to mention successful Time Agent, can’t figure out some way to deal with these aliens and flails about like a tyro, to the point that he has to be given instructions on how to steal from his least experienced agent. And even worse, the man we have been told for two series is the one who will do the bad thing, the nasty thing, no matter how bad and nasty, in order to save the Earth, has to be motivated by the death of his lover to sacrifice his grandson…

 

            Ianto Jones, the man who keeps everything going in Torchwood by making sure everything works as it should, doesn’t lock his car well enough so thieves get to it, and forgets to pick up a gas mask even though he knows the aliens live in a poisonous atmosphere…

 

            Everyone one in the government, except one lone temp, is a coward and a poltroon. Now, I know bureaucrats suck, but, honestly, not one to raise a ruckus?... Even in the Bourne movies there are at least two good government types…

 

            Everyone is terrified of these aliens, who the last time they were on Earth, didn’t really threaten much, instead, they offered a vaccine in trade, a vaccine that healed millions…

 

            Any one of us can think of three or four ways in which Ianto would still be dead but the response from the fans would be totally different.  Can you imagine how different it would have been if Ianto had died saving Steven? But at bottom, the whole CoE arc is bad plotting. Which, to be honest, is not unusual in Torchwood and Doctor Who. The thing that attracts us to these two shows is the characters. All the quirky, insane, brilliant, terrible, silly people that make up the Whoniverse, and who always, until now, acted according to their character. Without them, it all falls apart.

 

[identity profile] ldycat1170.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
You are brillant. You have covered many of the same points as other fans have, but since I know you do your research for your stories, all of these are very valid points. I wish that the writers and especially RTD would get off his high horse and take a look at what could have been done to make it better by looking in the very universe they established.
bravo my dear.
ext_116536: (Torchwood - Tosh - Surrounded by Idiots)

[identity profile] beth-mccombs.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 04:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Can I just cheer here because I couldn't figure out why CoE bothered me aside... too many failures of logic.

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I wish that the writers and especially RTD would get off his high horse and take a look at what could have been done to make it better by looking in the very universe they established.

What? And have to do something that made sense instead of their American audition tape? As if! (as the kids used to say)

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)
It's rubbish plotting. It's rubbishing your own Universe in order to "do drama". Logic? HAH! Leave it to the Vulcans (hey, the new Star Trek movie destroyed ALL OF VULCAN and it made more sense than CoE!)
ext_116536: (Torchwood - Ianto Jones (S3-Promo/Closeu)

[identity profile] beth-mccombs.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Never watched the Star Trek film, so I'll take your word for that one... but agreed, they totally through out the "book" on Torchwood to make CoE.

I take it you're over the weeping fit now?

[identity profile] tintop-lizzy.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:12 pm (UTC)(link)
American audition tape, yes, sadly for us. Smug reaction calculated to be dissmisive and agressive and put himself in the centre of the Whoniverse? Yes. let's agree to not do that for him.

Best originator/writer/ thingy of 30 years of Who? Verity Lambert will smash him thoroughly and with few polite words ON RTD's way into somewhere not very exiting( because I beleve strongly people make their own definition of where they go after they die). And if it is all RTD then why didn't he make a new hero instead of recycling a revered one?

[identity profile] scorpiodragon.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:15 pm (UTC)(link)
This is why I love reading your fanfic and meta's because you are whipcord smart and make very intelligent arguments.

Ianto's death as well as Stephen's angers me because I don't understand the why's of it other then maybe stripping Jack of all his earthly connections, but even then there are better ways of handling that. I thought Gareth and John did a beautiful job acting Ianto's death scene.

I don't understand Davies and I can't figure out how a season 4 would workout now.

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
VL would clean the floor with the silly prat...

And I think he couldn't make a new hero because he couldn't. I don't think he has as much clout with the Beeb as people think. He couldn't sell Excxalibur, which was the original idea for Torchwood, and created for Eve, until he put it in the Whoniverse and brought Jack over.

I am really, really concerned for Jack and his ultimate fate in the last Tennant special. RTD seems to be going out of his way to smash the toys on his way out.

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, yes. Under control and moving right along in my AU. Just... I thought I wanted to explain to myself in an orderly manner, why CoE bothered me so much!

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Neither can I. I'll be waiting to see... Gareth and John were fantastic throughout this whole thing. But considering what a great job RTD is doing of smashing the toys, I'm worried about Captain Jack's future!

[identity profile] tintop-lizzy.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:28 pm (UTC)(link)
*nods yes* *nods yes but hopes no*

*sighs* Too many who fans have been traumatised of late, silly little man RTD. And I count Who/TW as the same, else why link the two, RTD? They film Nov but he is writing it now. YOu can only deconstruct once Wesley Crusher/Worf//Bab5...
Even QAF (original UK) was heavily autobiographical, and Chris Ecc turned it down did you know...
When has RTD stuck with anything through to the end, I feel he has ven abandoned Wales by blowing it up... (Wels ttL is annoyed muchly here).

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:37 pm (UTC)(link)
No, I didn't! Clever man, Chris... Yah. I worry aboout Jack. And I'm sure the Welsh are pissed. Torchwood was a good draw, I think.
Edited 2009-07-28 17:39 (UTC)
ext_116536: (Default)

[identity profile] beth-mccombs.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:43 pm (UTC)(link)
You made much more sense than my attempts.

[identity profile] tintop-lizzy.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Chriss Ecc was to be the aggressive dismissive older guy who seduces the 15 year old. He only ever signed on for a single year one way or the other for DW. GDL filmed TW3 and finished it *then* announced his engagement to very nice Gemma....Vicious rumours say this is because RTD was a bit keen on GDL, making the name of GDL's girlfriend then in TWs1 as the cyberwoman who died etc etc etc... Rumours are so interesting Y/Y? Noel Clark is onto better things also...

[identity profile] 42footprints.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Emma, you're such a bright woman. No wonder you had problems with Children of Earth.

I, too, spent it thinking of the Doctor, Martha, Sarah Jane and K9, the Shadow Proclamation, Jack's phenomenal charm, and Ianto's preparedness. There were plot holes you could drop the Hub through. The actual writing wasn't that bad, but the plotting behind it was terrible.

The political overtones were so heavy as to be stifling. They swamped the characters, who ended up flailing around in them with nothing to grip onto. It felt like a party political broadcast by the Russell T Davies Party. There was no redemption, not for anyone.

RTD has said that he wants to carry on basing Torchwood around Jack. Now, any Jack with half a spine is going to be furious about the fact that the Doctor, Martha, Sarah Jane, and pretty much anyone else you could mention, just let him fight this on his own. He'll also, perfectly naturally, resent Gwen for having her perfect marriage and pretty little baby while everything he loved was systematically destroyed. They'll never be able to work together, not with that as a background. Jack would have to go away for a hundred years, maybe more, before he could stomach coming back to Cardiff.

I was reading And Death Shall Have No Dominion the other day, and thinking of Jack. There's a long fic in my head about what he does and where he goes post CoE. I'm wondering if I have the commitment to write it :)

[identity profile] faithharkness.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
*claps with all her might* Yes, exactly. As I just told temporal_witch, "RTD killed Ianto because he could, which is lazy writing." I've killed Ianto off. Teach has killed Ianto off (temporarily). A lot of good writers have killed Ianto off. And you know why we still read them? Because it had PURPOSE. Because it gave depth to the characters and the plot. Because there WAS a plot. "Because I can" is not the best mindset to use when writing. And I've been wondering myself about the Shadow Proclamation. Where the hell were they? They'll send the Judoon after a freaking haemovore, but not an entire race trying to eat our children? Eff that. Now that I think on it, RTD broke more than Torchwood--he broke the Whoniverse. Get the hell out of my sandbox, RTD.

*climbs down off soapbox. Again. Some more*

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I just hope GDL goes on to better things. The kid took a big risk with his career... OK, I'm not getting into personal rumours. They are always iffy at best. BUT if that's true, I wonder how he felt when he watched GDL all over Barrowman (and viceversa)at cons and things... because those two were making out to the point that if I were Scott I'd either slap them silly or tell them they must share :D But, you know, I doubt it. Here it's all about ego, I think. The man thinks of himself as a genius for reviving Doctor Who -- and in some ways, he was. It's just... not as great as he thinks he is.

[identity profile] scorpiodragon.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm in the wait and see tent with you also. I worry about Jack's character becoming unrecognizable considering some of the things Davies has said in recent interviews regarding the show.

[identity profile] faithharkness.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:55 pm (UTC)(link)
If you write it, I'll read it. Hell, I'll even beta if you want. Because I want someone to give me that grieving process. Without it, none of us are whole. And I might watch it centered around a pissed off, broken Jack (the way you've explained him here). It could be good--if they get good writers who can plot. On second thought, I'll pitch the idea to someone out here. They'd handle it better.

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
You MUST! MUST! Write it! Really. Please. I myself am engaged in, well, not so much fix-it fic, but in "how to bring back GDL to the show" fic. But I don't think I'll be able to deal with canon Jack after CoE...

What I'm afraid will happen in series four is that Rhys will have a very convenient accident with a weevil and then we can all go to the great romance that RTD has been trying to sell us for three series. OF course, the best thing would be, as you say, Jack coming back after one hundred years and finding Gwen's descendants and Ianto's sister's descendants in charge of Torchwood... or recruiting them... oh crap. Bunny.

[identity profile] faithharkness.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
And I don't think RTD created Jack, did he? I know Moffat wrote the first episodes with Jack, so did he create Jack or did RTD? Because if I were Moffat and he did that to my Jack, I think I'd be righteously pissed.

[identity profile] sophyl.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:57 pm (UTC)(link)
"Everyone one in the government, except one lone temp, is a coward and a poltroon."

It's not just everyone in the government, it's everyone in EVERY GOVERNMENT on the planet. How realistic it that, when there has not been one other moment in history when all governments on earth acted together in concert? Not one leader anywhere said, "No, I'm not going to hand over my country's children to intergalactic junkies just because the British government told me to." Last I looked, governments were made up of politicians who would be more than eager to throw each other under the bus if would make themselves look good.

Which brings up my next point: I can't imagine a government or politician anywhere that would willingly kill mankind's best hope of defeating an alien threat just to cover up the actions committed by the administration that was in power 45 years before. They'd be throwing the members of that administration under the aforementioned bus. No, their first concern would be to employ the best available means to fight the aliens (Jack Harkness and Torchwood), not "Let's destroy our only chance to win."

In order for CoE to work, the audience has to accept the fact that every major character behaves with a stupidity that defies belief and, in the case of Torchwood, totally out of character. It's an acceptance I'm unwilling to give.

[identity profile] tintop-lizzy.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I hope GDL gets signed for a BBC costume drama soon!! I'd watch it, yeah! Please PLEEEEZ not Eastenders...

And yes, RTD is a breaking rather than sharing type, and Moffat has a way to go, I support him sight unseen because his eps of DW were very good.

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 05:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Now that I think on it, RTD broke more than Torchwood--he broke the Whoniverse. Yes. On purpose. I wonder if his parting was not the love fest they all AGREED it was, because he's been breaking toys right and left...

[identity profile] merucha.livejournal.com 2009-07-28 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
Agreed. Moffat gets his chance in my eyes.

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